About 45 minutes after the student left my phone rings Caller - this is xx. Typically, as tower, I don't care about the details, I've got stuff to do. Anyway, a video has just been uploaded of an interaction between an air traffic controller and a pilot over the skies of Las Vegas on June 20, 2020. Me - knowing said student thought oh ##@@. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. Aviation SafetyOffice of Safety StandardsRegulatory Support DivisionAviation Data Systems Branch, In our continuing effort to improve the quality of service to our stakeholders, we would appreciate any comments you may have about our services and how to improve them. What a name for a company! This guy is a class-one "all about me" narcissist who makes GA pilots look bad. The guy should be investigated and suspended until taught both manners and flying law. For a bit of background Bravo airspace or Class B airspace is the term for the airspace around the busiest airports in the country. He should AT LEAST be suspended, and frankly, given his behavior, I have no issue with his losing it. This is a willful/intentional violation of FAR and ATC instructions. Even if the controller cleared him into Bravo, that's no place to question her. Or . WWFeldman Pre-takeoff checklist Joined: Nov 11, 2019 Messages: 107 Display name: WWFeldman I'm sure we all remember our favorite bravo buster. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. It would be one thing if he "unintentionally" violated the Class B airspace (how exactly do you do that in this day and age?). I'm not at liberty to discuss the matter further, but the safety of passengers and crew are paramount. entering airspace without authorization). ATC "OK, state reasons please". Good luck. Sounds like he could have told the controller when given the phone number or when he called that it wasn't him if he wanted to. If an ATC clearance has been obtained, there is no pilot that is allowed to deviate from the given clearance unless an amended clearance has been obtained, there is an emergency, or the deviation is in response to an air traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory. There are published VFR approaches and having flowing the west side "water tower" I know they're trivial. Again, not a good decision. Ah, Karen. I remember about 20 years ago when my grandfather and I flew up to Vegas to SEMA and we flew outside class bravo and he explicitly explained that we dont get near that ring until ATC says clear to enter. and our Keith - THANK YOU for all that you did to ensure the safety of your passengers and your crew! Also in this case, N1NR is crossing directly into the path of other aircraft's landing approach (2 Southwest airplanes at that moment were landing). He responds that he's been "talking to her the whole time." 08:47PM EDT Montreal-Trudeau - YUL. Anarchists on the ground, anarchists in the air. FAA CPL-H Its about attitude, and my only (very generous) defense of this pilots terrible attitude is that all of us are more tense and reactive these days with the covid pandemic, elections, riots, BLM, and other socio-political upheavals were dealing with globally. I know the FAA is trying to do the whole kinder gentler thing but there is a time to make an example. Good job on hitting a new high USA! Eg. The Original Donna: Class Bravo & Charlie airspace requires certain verbal permission to fly in/out/ and through it, but you have basic lack of understanding when it comes to the airspace system I fear. From available ATC communications, it appears this particular pilot either forgot to make the request, or thought he made the request to get permission. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. Car accidents because of human error are just as fatal only to less people. It appears this pilot got sloppy without realizing he got sloppy. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? Must have been a Kennedy. Washington, DC 20591 I once ate spices in the Old City. MuckRock users can file, duplicate, track, and share public records requests In fact, I encourage that. Flightaware shows he flew in from denver at 16300' level the whole way. It's clear the supe was not impressed by how the controller handled the situation either. (Identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). Its ridiculous that youre allowed to take the control of a Cessna independently at 60-80 hours of learning. Well you guys been calling all kind names to this pilot, and you probably right, but he made the mistake or not to come inside of Bravo,the tower job now os to try bring everyone safe in,then let FAA deal with it. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. All I do is shake my head and smile. It appears that this pilot is a child of the "Magenta Line", it looks like he flies with automation on a lot. Not only is it against our good nature, but its more work to deviate a pilot (tell on them in lay terms) than to overlook trivial pilot errors after calling them out, as long as it doesnt pose an imminent danger. See more about our ethics policies here. IFR Deviations - This is the most common of violations that happens the . Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. Been there, done that. I live in Las Vegas. First, when aviation is involved we ALL give a f. People's lives are at risk. 05:29PM CDT Abel Santa Maria - SNU. (i.e. - hold until otherwise instructed An official website of the United States government Here's how you know. Then you are free to call the tower on the landline when you land and find out why you were denied clearance or complain about poor services. The pilot violated the FARs and FSDO needs to take appropriate action. If you do receive a brasher warning, you should know that you do not have to call the provided telephone straight away, and you are allowed to take some time to think about the situation that has occurred. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. 2 Letter from FAA notifying an investigation is underway, privileges may be suspended or curtailed until investigation is over. Otherwise he'll have his license yanked in *very* short order. Yeah, he was a jerk, but she is paid to problem solve, and she didn't offer him any useful solutions other than to just leave. There are legal charges. Even if you dont have a good understanding of ATC terminology, the situation should be easy enough to make sense of. The FAA should (and probably will) commence an emergency revocation of the pilot's certificate. In other words, his head was so far up his ass Double that. It causes paperwork (at the very least) on both sides and is also distracting from other important duties. I hope he stops making bad decisions before he no longer has the ability to do so. Thank you. But if we want to affect change, we need to do it safely and respectfully. She is going to give him the number when he's ready. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? He could have declared, he could have said he has a medical emergency, heck he could have said all sorts of things. Blatantly ignoring ATC is criminally gross negligence. Continuing into class Bravo airspace without a clearance and then flying right thru the active ILS approach to a major airport is a huge problem. There's no stick up anyone's ass here just concerned people who want to ensure the people who trust us to get them to point B are safe. This was a blatant disregard of regulations after being told to exit the Class B. Whether BR was cleared or not he was tracked and being separated. "Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? > Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. You have to request Bravo clearance.Pilot: I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago.ATC: Nobody cleared you through the Bravo but me.Pilot: Then clear me through.ATC: No!Pilot: Yes!. That's the whole point of talking to you.". Las Vegas class B is the only one Ive flown close to when I was on flight following trying to get into Henderson and they told me to squak 1200 and see ya. No one commented on the commercial airliner that had to deviate (immediate drop in altitude) from his glide path when he got a visual on the offending email plane. Get the stick out of your asses. Sometimes, when major airports are busy, they ban transitions through their airspace, in which case you have to either: - route around, under, or above the relevant airspace This will come out in time. Anything that may seem like a clearance but does not resemble those exact words is not a clearance. Mistakes happen. He flew into the Bravo airspace without a clearance, argued with the controller when she repeatedly told him to exit the Bravo, and continued his flight through as if he owned the airspace. Another pilot chimes in with his thoughts. She was far better to him than a lot of NY approach controllers are to good pilots on a good day (and I like NY approach, by the way). If you are training to be a pilot, or simply have an interest in the industry, a phrase that you might have come across is pilot deviation. They got a full 2/3 of their pilots certificated!! Or the one over Cerritos in 1986? These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? She should have vectored him out after he refused. Although VASAviation transcribed it as "you're being that," it sounded to me more like this pilot started to retort with, "YOU'RE being an ass--", then caught himself and said, "That is not appropriate language.". For starters, she let him wander into bravo and didn't kick him out until he was well inside. I look forward to receiving your response to this request within 20 business days, as the statute requires. Civil aviation authorities should raise pilot standards. Cookie Notice Without that you cannot enter class B airspace. Student - he did get his private after 3 more months of practice. I'm very impressed that he could do all that. As soon as I heard this when she said not cleared I remember him saying thats a $5,000 fine. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, I hereby request the following records: An electronic copy of:- any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions (incl suspensions, revocations and/or monetary penalties) or FSDO records (including statements or phone recordings from Las Vegas or Henderson Tower ATC regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance*)- from 2018-Nov-5 to present,- of owner WIFE APPROVED LLC, registration N731NR, or Jeff Wachner. It seems like the pilot was intent on entering Bravo with or without permission. Dad got home that night after his charter. I am sure you are a "perfect angel". "N731NR (again, whining): "I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago. I.E "whatever you say, dude" She is going to give him the number when he's ready. Maybe follow-up later with a phone call to make sure they knew it was entirely unintentional, you immediately corrected the error, and that safety is paramount. Assuming N1NR requested clearance, in standard aviation communications, there is a clear protocol. It's hard to begin to defend such irrational and reckless behavior. The Registry will be issuing revised certificates in batches based on the former expiration date. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately"N731NR (whining): "I've been talking to you the whole time. The report said the pilot was distracted adjusting the climate control on approach. Especially for psychological problems, and probably especially if something's making you hypoxic below 6000 feet. It seems like the pilot was intent on entering Bravo with or without permission. If you are on an IFR flight and told to maintain a certain altitude, deviating from that altitude beyond tolerances set by the regs qualifies as pilot deviation. The ATC has so many things going on- for him to argue and therefore take her attention away from all the "balls in the air" she is dealing with, the punishment should be more than losing his license, he should be charged with attempted manslaughter or something. Go read the news HERE AND NOW and find out when we call the cops with the .50 BMGs to take out one guy going to the store because he looks "suspicious".*. Thank you.Respectfully,Geneva LaingManagement and Program Analyst, Management & Administrative Support Team, AJV-W640, Northwest Mountain Regional OfficeATO Western Service CenterResource Management Group2200 S. 216th St., 3rd Floor, 3N-458Des Moines, WA 98198Office: 206-231-3337Geneva.Laing@faa.gov, [Your new Mission Support Services Logo! How reassuring and interesting your post is, Eldo. No request for Bravo clearance is heard.While it is not known what N1NR said in the last exchange, this is the nature of radio communications as some transmissions do not go through. This isnt a slap on the wrist type of offense. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside the nuclear industry. Unless there is an emergency, no person should operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction. Anyone flying under VFR (Visual . If N1NR had requested clearance, ATC would have responded with clearance or denial and N1NR would have to confirm what was said. Good for the controller for remaining reasonable. PS: The trauma was from being hit with luggage that fell out of the overhead upon disembarking. Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. Is there any way you can vector me through? "Abraham Lincoln, letter to H.L. Having been a pilot for over 50 years let me assure you this pilot will receive more than a you shouldnt do that anymore. As promised, the final portion of the FOIA response concerning N731NR (the guy who busted Las Vegas class B). To do this, they will use the Brasher Notification Phraseology. And in any case, if the ATC says you need to get out of the airspace, you do it. Review: EgyptAir Lounge Cairo Airport (CAI). Karen: > Nobody gives a f*. We have your student at the local FBO, and one of my people has the keys. Nobody in Vegas is "allergic to rules." The first is to signal that the pilot is done speaking especially. Honestly I'm not sure why. It is a technical term that means that the pilot in command failed to observe FAA regulations, ATC clearances, or temporary flight restrictions in the conduct of his/her flight. Were all here to check each other and keep our airspace safe. I dont see any defense to his behavior. "LAS: "N1NR, I told you to remain outside the Bravo". We dont delight in getting them in trouble. The worst case scenario would not be to lose your certificate. In aviation, Bravo airspace or Class B space is a zone around some of the busiest airports that no plane or helicopter is allowed to enter without permission. Certainly, the other person on frequency broke the rules by transmitting directly to the pilot, but that was defensible and measured: the pilot had severely degraded situational awareness that was imperiling the safe operation of his aircraft. I'm not so sure she would know how to "buy a clue"!? For purposes of these compilations, a regulated aviation entity holds a certificate issued by the FAA, (e.g., air carrier operating certificate, repair station certificate, pilot school certificate, airport operating certificate) or is a foreign air carrier or other aviation entity regulated under Part 129 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, 14 CFR Part 129. He busted that test and they pulled his ticket. The pilot never requested clearance into the class BRAVO airspace. he just kept right on going disregarding the safety of hundreds of people on the SWA planes. And he had to know that ATC comms are recorded. I don't care where people get frustrated. This guy might just be the most negligent pilot ever in terms of how he ignores instructions. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. Learn more. When told to leave it, he refused and was belligerent. The pilot will most likely face a license suspension and other penalties. Having been a pilot for over 50 years let me assure you this pilot will receive more than a you shouldnt do that anymore. "Negative, November-one-romeo (N1NR)" would be the appropriately phrased response. Get the stick out of your asses. I fly in the busy Chicago airspace as a private pilot and the vast majority of Private pilots are as professional as the air transport pilots, and are often much less complacent in and around the class B and class C airspace. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. None of my students have gotten one either. Doxing is not right. I'm the ATC supervisor in FSD is NxxxxR still Gotta love how times have changed So to appease the pilot and keep him from rattling off more sob story on frequency, he just smiles and waves. - attitude, attitude, attitude, and I'm not talking about the aircraft. He had to pass my father's exam before IP could sign off on him. @Wingslover said, "If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircraft.".
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