Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Mine is very accurate. 3. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. how do I get one for my P320? Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. My gun just went off! The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. BAM. I continue to bet my life on them. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Its a novelty, its got issues! Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. That could happen easily. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. is the manual safety a kit you add? Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. The new Kirk does suck. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. It has nothing to do with Glock. 2. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Period. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. About $300. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. who sells them? But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . ALL OF THEM. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. They are being replaced with Glocks. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. I also have a manual safety. Thats SIGs term for a recall. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. . . Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. He was told to shoot two rounds. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? 01:10. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. Still waiting. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. But breaking news here, skippy. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. There was no holster involved. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. . I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. Liberal, Conservative. It was expensive. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. Im more of a DS9 guy. He was told to shoot two rounds. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. I have no idea. congrats. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Grow up, you aint all that! Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? Anyway around here they do. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. . But this time, the sound bites used were different. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. L. LRRifleman . The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. It did not originally have this. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Wont last!. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Third, Glock has had problems, too. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. Nope. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. That took a lot. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. Weird how that might happen. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. You couldnt ask questions. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence.
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